Like!

How, Kenneth?

Cordially Yours,
Ramuel M. Raagas
(508)308-0935

At least 10 days I assume.

Right after the recall election, they'll come out with a determination. But then it may not take that long to figure it out since the firemen may be union. But the political officials won't release it before the election.

Chances are they won't know until after the election. But this has the stench of suspicion and Kapnake's badly listing senate career will be sunk.

I find it interesting that the author wrote more about the groups spending than he did about the details of the fire it self.

This kind of property damage is always sad, no matter which side of the aisle you're on. I'm just glad no one was seriously injured in the blaze.

mr,
If you would like to offer Patch a news/story tip, email the appropriate local editor directly. Comments on a story thread should be relevant to the story at hand, so it's easy to see why other readers would jump to the conclusion Tass Kandle did.

@Concerned about being united...Where did you come up with this atheist verses Christian rights. I haven't seen anything in this string about Christian rights being violated.

Just what in the hell are you talking about?

It seems to me that it is time that Americans and the people of Wisconsin realize that America is involved in a civil war with the Koch brothers' Tea Party John Birch Society Republicans against democracy, public schools, labor unions, and working Middle Class Americans. These radical Republicans have proven to be gun toting extremists and nothing more than American terrorists; it is war, a second civil war in America and people can't believe it. Americans have always said, "it can never happen here"; it did!

I think it's safe to click on Mike's links. ;-)
But here are the Professional Fire Fighters of Wisconsin's endorsements anyway...

Current Endorsements for the Recall Elections
Fred Clark (D-14) Portage, WI
Dave Hansen (D-30) Green Bay, WI
Jim Holperin (D-12) Rhinelander, WI
Jessica King (D-18) Fond du Lac, WI
Shelly Moore (D-10) Hudson, WI
Nancy Nusbaum (D-2) De Pere, WI
Sandy Pasch (D-8) Glendale, WI
Jennifer Shilling (D-32) La Crosee, WI
Bob Wirch (D-22) Kenosha, WI

They were on the link that I included above.
Here it is again:
http://pffw.org/?zone=/unionactive/private_view_page.cfm&page=Endorsements

Thanks, Prof. You beat me to it.

Yes, it is. However, they are planning a name change into:

Fitzwalkerstan, the first true banana republic in North America!

And all of them have been to the ALEC school of fascist government. Benito would be proud...after all he said Fascism should be called Corporatism.

It can't have escaped the notice of anyone paying attention that they all came out with identical legislation within weeks of stepping into office. SO obvious that there was such a thing as ALEC, and now we know that it really does exist--an organization whose sole focus is to write legislation benefiting corporations, then get it into Republican legislators' hands.

@Lolcat, I too noticed that this was not an isolated incident and if the Republican won the gubernatorial election here in Illinois, we'd be in the same boat, maybe worse. And yes, I also think it is ALEC (google it) behind it all..

Yes, there is such a thing as ALEC, google it; and yes there is a John Birch Society.
America is in trouble.
See: http://quixotictales.escapenet.ch/?p=446

Thank you for the comment, jealous D student.

I don't think anyone is saying straight out "Oh that must be arson".

Just that its one of those things that smells a little too fishy to be ANOTHER coincidence,

Like "finding" 7,000 votes?

Well said Felix. And if I can expand on that point. http://www.justice.org/cps/rde/xchg/justice/hs.xsl/15044.htm

To expand on the previous post, do a google search of Scott Walker and ALEC. There is lots to learn.

Hear Hear!! Felix is correct!

You're half right Felix. The run on government is broken, so they run on providing you less of it.

"This may be the straw that breaks the indecision of some voters."

I hope so.

Thing is I think there are only about 4% undecided voters at the last poll. Its truly polarized.

At this point the people still willing to vote republicans the the most extreme right wing cultist who would still support the republicans no matter what. Walker could walk out on stage in front of nationwide live TV, eat a baby, "know" a roadkill deer in the biblical sense of the word, and he would be applauded by these crazies.

Its literally become a cult where the leaders can do know wrong and there is no deed too dirty, no crime so heinous that it would turn off these fanatics.

I'm on your side, Buck, but don't call them merry men. Walker is not stealing from the rich to give to the poor, is he....

I have no idea. We don't have Patch reporters on the ground in La Crosse. I recommend you check the La Crosse Tribune for updates on this story. When I follow up it will be with local Hudson We Are Wisconsin people.

Done. Here's more info for those who are interested.
http://lacrossetribune.com/news/local/article_b5828580-bacf-11e0-a78e-001cc4c002e0.html

How to Succeed as an Ayn Rand Character...
http://cdn-www.cracked.com/articleimages/wong/aynrand/arflowchart2copy.png

Did you know that when Ayn Rand (Anne O'Connor) was objectively sick from objectively smoking two packs of cigs a day she took the truly boot strap approach to dealing with her objectively fatal disease brought on by herself, after all. She started using her real first name and he totally subjective husband's last name to apply for Medicare and Social Security... Both of which she received. Nothing like a conservtive hypocrite, is there.

Or maybe some wisdom from dentist/real estate agent/lawyer/birther queen Orly Taitz.

Bottom line...Conservatives are terrorists by any reasonable definition.

Or they would blame it automatically on Muslims.

Don't you remember any more how that was under Reagan, the great communicator?

He knew of the terrorists and insurgents in some South American countries, and there were the Freedom Fighters in Nicaragua (cause he supported them)

Maybe, but now that the GOP is famous for stuff like this, people will pin it on the GOP. Too bad, so sad, but they've earned it (see -- Valeria Plame).

Gail -- I AM a thinking person and your post is insulting, by the way. I'm not a Republican and have been working my behind off in the recall elections, just for your information. Use a little logic and re-read my post.

I really think we need to wait and not leap to judgement. The city and state fire marshalls will be investigating as well as the various insurance companies that hold the policies on the contents and on the property. Odds are there will be at least 5 to 6 investigators going through the building with a fine tooth comb. Lets not jump to conclusions, why not be civil and wait it out, the truth will be known.

Save the indignation until we have reason to use it--if we have another "Oh, gee, are those bags of ballots broken open? That's okay, we'll just stick with the 7000 magical new votes ..." type situation, we'll need the indignation, and if we have clear signs of an old building doing what old buildings sometimes do, WE WILL NOT HAVE PLAYED INTO THE HANDS OF THE DIVISIVE TEA PARTY PUPPETEERS. Stay civil, stay peaceful, WE are Wisconsin!

But if you piss off the Badger, then we come out and show you why you should not do that. >:/

Sorry but this kind of thinking is going to get our world nowhere. Stop acting like this is just Republicans vs. Democrats and start thinking it is about ALL of us! You are throwing out there arson and you have absolutely no facts! If that comes out fine, then have a fit about it, but we all need to grow up and start coming together. There is NOone on any of the sides that is not doing something that is would be considered dirty. Some are actually trying to find a way for everyone to be somewhat happy instead of some just getting there way, and when we see posts like this, you make people want to be very much on the opposite side.

You mean that major league fraud where teachers make less than others with BAs?

But ... but ... I wanted to be part of an Evil Faction! ... dangit .... Guess I'll just have to go back to being an electrician.

Loicat Wolf- Dont despair, electricians know how to handle power.

He jerk... The next time you need a cop.... Look for a private one. Ass.

You are, apparently, incapable of distinguishing fact from opinion.

So if you object to public workers quit using public services, get off the roads, shut off your water, plug your sewer line, shut down your utilities, get off line, and stop going to parks amoung other things. I have yet to see any of your facts.

Public workers are making about what other people make and many times less, so they bargained for higher benefits, and now the state is reneging on this. Why are you so concerned over what these people are making when there are others making 600 times what the lowest paid worker is making in their companies. Why doesn't that bother you?

Are wages determined by one's job responsibilities or do we base wages according to what other people in the company are making?

It makes sense to me that the CEO of a large corporation like McDonald's would earn a much larger salary than the teen working the drive thru window...

Talk to the workers at the Triangle Shirtwaist company.

And neither Honda nor Toyota are American companies. Is it painful to be such a douchebag? To be so stupid? Or does Koch industries pay that much for you to rape your own integrity.

cicero your facts are as bogus as you. In actuality 14.7 percent of wisconsin workers belong to a union the national average is approximately 11.5 Percent depending on which year you use. I hate unions but I tolerate them and acknowelege workers rights to join a union if they feel it is nescesary. Who are you to dictate to other workers if they should have the right to organize or not.

@Cicero... or should I call you Tully? You insult the positions of your namesake, a humanitarian and orator of the people. Although he believed in the oligarchy of the Roman Republic and eventually it cost him his life, he would object to the take over of the state by Walker branding it as tyranny on the same order as Caesar's take over of Rome as dictator for life.

Tully was a politician of the first order and worked with the plebeians not against them. Your rancor toward unions and support of the monied class would have been rejected by Cicero as bad political positioning and dishonesty.

Corporations will not always take care of their hard working employees. Their goal is to make a profit for their share holders, PERIOD. Some politicians pay handsome dues. Like the ones who had to vow their loyalty to K Street. If any of these Republicans did not vow their loyalty and walk lockstep with the party line, they would more than likely be ostracized from the party and it would be unlikely that they would get any money from the RNC. Hows that for dues. A moderate Republican wouldn't stand a chance. How about the dues that Grover Norquist demanded? You had to sign a pledge or again, you might be ostracized. Some politicians (mostly Republican) pay dues to something called Alec. Below is a description of how ALEC works. If you want your corporate campaign $$ then you better pay these dues. The Koch Brothers, big tobacco, insurance companies, and the drug industry: all behind the shadowy corporate front group known as the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC). On the surface, ALEC is mostly comprised of thousands of state legislators, each paying a nominal fee to attend ALEC retreats and receive model legislation. In reality, corporations pay ALEC a king’s ransom to access legislators to distribute radical legislation that puts corporate interests over American workers and consumers.

I ahve noticed several other paid posters lurking on these pages lately. The tea party must be scarred and desperate.

Tea Party has always been scared and desperate. That's why they're in the Tea Party, and that's why it is so sad they are calling the shots in DC right now. A great country cannot stay great if that is what constitutes leadership.

Like! Let's not contribute to his paycheck!

No reason to lie, I am not paid or compensated in any way by any organization or individual. Just a middle class, private citizen tax payer, nothing more, nothing less. But the facts are the facts.

Actually you yet have to state a single fact. Just saying facts are facts.

I couldn't agree more about your "innocent until proven guilty" comment. Please see my previous post. But how is getting the "other party's" views out equivalent to "nasty"?

While your party claims the media is "left wing," the rest of us know better.

We're corporate owned.

iPad self correcting typing strikes again. In my post, # 2 should read " a total joke" not "atonal" and # 4 should start "patch" not "atch". Sorry

KTin, my " nasty" comments was referring to the increasingly nasty personal attacks and name calling, nothing to do with party views.. I may not agree with the left's positions, but I sure don't condone the lack of civility on BOTH sides. Just wish we all could exchange views without the " nastiness".

@Bewildered. Gotta love those self correcting computer programs.
"Open the pod bay doors, HAL." ;-)

I'm in the process of removing some of the incivility right now. You all can help me out by flagging comments that contain personal attacks or profanity.

Seems like the right has been nothing but into "innocent until proven guilty."

How does that medicine taste?

So Kieth, I see you are attacking those who believe in the word of law, that all are presumed innocent till proven guilty. Thank goodness lynching is out of the picture (isn't it?). Just wondering what " medicine I'm tasting"? My comment that let's wait for the facts before we brand the right as arsonists? Strange sense of the law here folks.

You are kidding......right?

Yes, I always hated it and will always dislike it. However, to be fair, the negative campaigning seems to be mainly a republican thing. Remember Willy Horten, the fear ad against health care reform under Clinton and Obama, the Swift boat thing for Kerry, etc.?

Yep, sick of it. I like to see numbers--from both sides, with sources cited and partiality of researchers revealed. Actual facts to back up the reality of the situation. How often do we get that? So we end up with people who receive completely different "facts" yelling at each other that the other crowd is full of it, stupid, ignorant, etc ... when in fact, there ARE facts out there, somewhere. Ones that are not paid for. Ones that we could actually discuss, if we weren't so Pavlovian in our reactions. How many decades has it taken to set us on this path? When will politicians stand up and say "Hey, let's start talking with each other again!"

(I wonder if there's an "auto-troll" program out there anywhere? Like ALEC legislation--the same behaviors and comments appear so quickly and so uniformly, you just have to wonder.)

Curious to know why it is always the Koch brothers buying Walker. Not sure the difference of that as to the Unions buying the democrats? Not on either side, trying to find my side, but not sure why some can't see both sides?

I'm sorry I wasn't the one who knocked on your door, vagabond. There are hundreds of us volunteers also out there knocking doors. I'm thankful my union is providing us help to reach so many people up here. It's difficult getting news out in this district. Are you implying Sheila Harsdorf's campaign hasn't been using paid canvassers?

Having been heavily involved in this recall effort, I can tell you I've met dozens of people volunteering their time who live in this district also working hard in this grassroots effort.

Then you had a problem with just about all of the canvassers pushing GOP candidates in the recalls being paid.

Wolfman, very well said!!

Very good point Wolfman. Unfortunately, the TPers are a negative force in our politics, fueled by funds by bad actor greedy corporations (how else can they afford to ship around Sarah Palin) so in the meantime they have to be resisted. I hope when we come out of this we can turn in that direction.

The parties have different ideas on the value of signs?

I tend to agree with you, Andrew. Patch is working on tools to help us enforce that.

Using a person's actual name would definitely cut down on the snarky comments being made by those who make comments that they feel might endanger their families and homes.

Shannon, why should ANY comment - agreeable to you or not - endanger my family or home? I certainly don't wish you any ill-will even tho I disagree with your opinions. That's my point, but I guess you missed it. Who knows anyway if your name is "Shannon" No-last-name-given....why don't you set the example and put up your real, full name?

Not how the internet works, user names are common place. Anonymity is much safer, they are just words but protection is #1 with any poster.

Andrew, aren't we full of ourselves tonite! So you want to limit blog participants to only those who meet your requirements. Maybe you should apply to be Pres. Obama's "Internet Tzar". Oh yea, i forgot, dems invented the internet (actualy Al Gore invented it, didn't he?

Sounds a lot like censorship to me. MF, are you announcing a new Patch policy
that only those using a full name will be allowed to comment? Just how will Patch verify the full names are legit? Next you will want SS #s and blood types. Get ready for far less participation, but then you're saying that's what Patch wants, right? Ever look at other opinion blog strings. Using " nom de plumes " ( that's a term Lyle taught me) is the norm.

Bewildered: The policy isn't new. It's always been in our terms of use. Patch is just looking at new options to help us better enforce it.

Gee Vag, I too was wondering why Shannon refuses to not use her full name too. And no, Shannon, I'm not talking to you. Boy, this could be fun once M Foley gets Patch to exclude many of us cause we won't play by his new rule " no full name, no play". What's next Patch? ( bet Foley deletes this one too)

Keep it up limiting responses MF and Patch will go the way of liberal talk radio. Boring and a total failure.

Vagabond: I'd rather it be boring than unsuitable for children.

Bewildered wouldn't be making the caustic comments that he makes if he had to use his full name. But he hides and makes the snide comments and hates the people who call him on it. The haters all justify their comments and then play the victim card. Like everyone is out to get you. Like anyone cares.

Again Shannon, if it's so important to you, why don't you use your full name? Are you so famous, you only go by your first name?

So MF, when is using a web ID name unsuitable for children? Are you actualy says anyone who doesn't use full name ( which of course includes "Shannon", she...or is it a he?...of only a first name) is offensive?

Bewildered: That's why, for now, we're just saying "keep it clean and be civil." But because many users don't act appropriately when using fake names, Patch is looking into better enforcement of the username policy to see how that might affect comment civility. Nothing is certain yet. We're just exploring options.

@Andrew Martin & Micheal Foley...Gentlemen, I would strongly discourage the idea of disallowing the use of nom de plumes. I, as a blogger for the Shorewood Patch, am required to use my real name. I have to take responsibility for what I write. Everything goes before Adam McCoy before it's published. To require people who post to use their real names is a bad idea for the free exchange of ideas and positions. To much privacy has already been lost in the Google World. The local editors will just have to monitor the site to prevent the worst from getting through. Allowing people to blow off steam on the Patch is better than vandalism and other more harmful activity. Please don't consider the clear nature of the Patch, which is to connect people with differing views.

Sincere thx Lyle. I knew you would join me in the fight for freedom of expression

I had similar problems to yours, and that is why I am Hudsoner. If I cannot maintain this pseudonym, I am out of here!

Like!

Thanks, Steve! I like it, too!

(P.S., the fist has nothing to do with communism.)

Steve, Perhaps you should attend a college and get an education as to what a Communist is because it is obvious that you are uneducated in this field of study!!!!!

Steve, Maybe you could post a copy of your property tax receipts since 2004. Then people will know the truth that your proper taxes have gone down, NOT up, yet you continue to whine about taxes. While we are categorizing people and assigning them to radical political philosophies. Why not try to label the bloggers at ontheborderline.net. They seem to cast the same aspirations upon people being Communists. They have even called Sheila Harsdorf A COMMUNIST!.

Who needs what education? [The raised fist (also known as the clenched fist) is a salute and logo most often used by left-wing activists, such as: Marxists, anarchists, socialists, communists, pacifists, trade unionists, and black nationalists]

http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1600&bih=807&q=communist+fist&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2&oq=communist+fist&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=s&gs_upl=0l0l0l568l0l0l0l0l0l0l0l0ll0l0

I am better at the internet than you

It does seem as if opinions opposed to lock-step are frowned upon.....makes for a boring debate when only one side gets to argue. I am hoping the reason for the fire in LaCrosse is discovered quickly, so both sides can concentrate on the issues and stop the flame-throwing distractions.

I agree. Wow, not trying to hide the allegiance of the Patch when you throw the fist with 'we aren't wisconsin' out there.

Lock step with whom? I see comments and opinions from all different viewpoints here. There is a line that should not be crossed and words that should not be used, and that is why the Patch has a moderator.