You mean like trying to backpedal on Ayn Rand after decades of devotion? ; )

Ryan's was the best speech of the night. His sincerity, substance and sincerity kept me fixated for the next point. Romney can not top this speech. Ryan is a young Jack Kemp.

RIP English @celador2

Republicans see us on the Brink as democrat see opportunity. Could this explain why such a diverse view of the same equation. Republicans see a dwindling ability to extract welfare payments from the bottom of the Pyramid scheme they have designed. Democrats’ see opportunity for our society by cutting welfare payments to the elitist and returning the Pyramid back to its proper position.
Cronyism Welfare…. Fair Game?
It’s one thing to win in a fair game. Quite another when rules of game are written in such a manner enhancing one’s prospects of winning. Imagine now you can choose the referee’s. Regulatory agencies such as Federal Communications {FCC} telecom. Exchange Commission {SEC} securities. Banking have their Federal Reserves. Political influence to get people appointed to the regulatory agencies who are beneficial to the politician’s desires.

Fox thinks Ryan was decietfull , in his speech, and they should know!

Elitist welfare
Regulatory capture is known as the use of personnel that are associated within the sector that they are to regulate. Another capture is obtained by those they regulate. {cognitive capture} which is more aligned as a sociological phenomenon. Greenspan and Geithner did not actually work for a bank before being appointed to the Federal Reserve, yet there was a natural affinity. A mindset that hey could be identified with banker’s mindset. In spite of the chaos banker’s impressed upon our society, there was no stringent conditions imposed upon them with the bail out.
Banker’ hired lobbyist to restrain any restrictive regulation to be imposed upon them. Expenditures were high enough to have each political representative, to be lobbied to the tune of $2.5 million! Banker’s seek to appoint those individuals that have been “captured”. Remaining candidates to be vetoed.

That's pretty random, tom. We live in a democratic republic.

We have a democratic republic that is becoming more socialistic under the current administration. We are fighting to keep it a democratic republic.

Two misinformed people replied to you stating we live in a Democratic Republic. Since there's no reply button after their posts I'll reply here, and state that we live in a Constitutional Republic, or at least we were supposed to. Democracy is mob rule while a Constitutional Republic is rule by law which is designed to protect everyone's rights. That being said however we in reality live in a globalist corporatist imperialist dictatorship (ultimately ruled over by a plutocratic elite aka major stockholders of the mega multinational corporations, and banks) disguised as a feel good socialist democracy that delivers Constitutional Republic rhetoric to give the air of freedom for the clueless citizens who in fact have no real choice in it's two party dictatorship. However once their party of choice wins they dance about with glee at their victory, and never seem to realize that things don't change for the better with each parties reign of power. Parties that have no Constitutional power yet rule over the entire election process. Naturally the politicians lie about their so called accomplishments that in reality don't exist as stated.

Socialism welfare of the elitist
Monopolies whether government granted or “sanctioned through inadequate enforcement, have built fortunes of many of the wealthiest people. They merely have the government hand over the wealth.
Gifts are hidden in provisions of legislation. Derivative market is above reproach that no regulator can hold them accountable. “Seniority” infused within their infrastructures’ of laws, makes any losses paid first, before workers, creditors and suppliers get to receive any payments. Even if it were to go into bankruptcy. A major contributor to the 2008-2009 disaster. AIG gets $150 Billion from bailout in such a scenario.
Another way banker’s protect themselves is to have easy access to unlimited funds from the Federal Reserve at near zero interest rates. Banks can then lend the money back to the government or a foreign government. Multibillions are then transferred to what will produce a profitable return.

How is it becoming more socialist? Since when did deciding to do things that help everyone become socialism? I call it common sense. And our forbears seem to have a lot more of it than some of us do now.

Really? What has Paul Ryan done other than be in government?

He's a devotee of atheist adulteress passport bride Ayn Rand (except apparently now he's not-good luck with that). He's read every screed she wrote and inflicts them on his staff. A dubious achievement, but worth mentioning because Ayn's me-first piggy attitude (Objectivism) oozes out of piece of legislation Ryan's been a part of.

Socialism of the welfare’s for elitist
Another way is with vast natural resources, {oil, gas, coal, mining concessions}. Government allows free extraction or a fraction of its cost to the investor. Investors are receiving resource for free. Example. Value is$100 Billion and a payment of $5 Billion is all that is required, extractor receives $95 Billion. This is practiced in some of the third world countries as well. Progress to its society is slow, stagnated and or degrading to its social evolution. Politicians are rewarded to maintain the status quo or even accelerate the abuse of the poverty it produces.
Auctioning has been proven affective to promote greater competition. Return on profits to government increases for distribution back to the social infrastructure. This however is more the exception than the norm

@Walker -

Do your homework - to start with, the Janesville GM assembly plant closed in June of 2009 during the Obama administration. MSDNC and the liberal lefties are lying - not Ryan.

You may want to appropriately independently fact check all of your other erroneous assertions with primary sources as well, or just continue to look like an low-information, non-thinking kool-aide drinker - the choice is yours.

Obviously you missed the point.
Just direct 2 direct quotes from the article. One saying he didn't point fingers the next showing he did. Nothing more than more of the blame game.Doesn't take a genius to see the obvious. Try reading before jumping down throats. You really like the flavor of the kool-aid they serve don't you?

Getting your lies from FOX Jimmy -- http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/wp/2012/08/29/ryan-misleads-on-gm-plant-closing-in-hometown/

@Schmitzy -

I trust the primary source, GM, and not a blog on the Washington Post website. Also, my father, a UAW electrician, did some work at the plant in March of 2009, while medium and light-duty trucks were being assembled on the line. I'm sure you can confirm with the other 100 or so UAW workers that continued to assemble vehicles in the plant until June of 2009 when the plant was finally idled for good. But seeing as how you're incapable of independent research, here's some links for you:

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/08/30/fact-checkers-wrong-on-ryan-gm-claim/

http://washingtonexaminer.com/fact-check-obama-promised-and-failed-to-keep-janesville-gm-plant-open/article/2506462#.UD-N8aDQvWE

http://gazettextra.com/photos/galleries/last-day-gm/

twitchy.com/2012/08/30/obama-lied-about-janesville-gm-auto-plant-not-ryan/

http://m.jsonline.com/business/130171578.html

As you can see, the AP, Janesville Gazette, Milwaukee J/S, GM, UAW, etc all disagree with you, MSNBC, and the Washington Post. Honestly, how can you guys simply ignore the FACTS so nonchalantly?

Wake up and stop drinking the Obama kool-aide!

@Walker -

There's no finger pointing in exposing the truth of broken promises. Perhaps you missed the point of Ryan's speech because you're more concerned with the liberal pundit analysis as opposed to what was actually said and the message clearly delivered.

Try again guys!

Because you said so right jimmy?

When was the decision made to close the plant? I'm guessing that was recession-based. Obama didn't cause the recession.

Are we smarter than the Baboons?
Republicans advocate smaller government and laissez-faire ideologies. Strategy of the most primitive life forms disagree!
From the viruses through bacteria’s and on to the vegetative and animal kingdom, unification of an organized society is demonstrated. Centralized organization to enhance their security as well as empowering them to succeed in their environment is detrimental to their survival.
Sovereignties of the world are demonstrating that strategy. Organizing and reorganizing to compete with the surrounding nations. Observe the reorganizing of orthodox communism to compete on the Liberal International Free Trade Markets. Democratic principles are required that were once their nemesis. Evolving to adapt for their survival as a culture and a nation.
Reduction of that organizing ideology serves to regress the survival mode of any organism on this planet. Greater organized unification of their society enhances their security and empowers them to adapt to their environment.
Republicans are the antithesis to evolution.

@Bren -

Obama said that his sound ideas and leadership would turn all that around - remember Hope and Change?

Bush, just as Carter had successful done with Iaccoca and Chrysler back in '79, structured the bailouts to be a straight up interest bearding loan with a defined repayment schedule. The taxpayers wouldn't have lost out on a dime under this plan, but instead would have made money.

But Obama didn't like that. Instead, he had to use a car czar to exert a lot of influence over GM central planning, and made lofty back room, behind closed door, smoke filled room deals with the UAW and others. What happened to the promised transparency and pledge against cronyism and lobbyists? Not to mention that Obama's plan has the taxpayers on the hook to lose out on billions of dollars.

Bottom line, if Obama really wanted that plant to stay open, he could have made it happen, as he controlled the fate of the bailout and dictated through his car czar what constituted appropriate and inappropriate central action from GM management.

Throughout early 2009, then Gov Doyle offered over $195M in state tax breaks and subsidies for GM in an effort to keep the plant open and operational. Obama and the federal government offered nothing.

Obama said give me your support and I'll keep it open for a hundred more years. Just another Obama LIE.

Do your homework Bren!

James you know the plant for all practical perposes was closed and a small crew was finishing the rest of the suvs. They locked the gate in June,but the plant started no new cars after Dec.

@Robert -

Assembly was taking place at the plant well after December of 2008. If completed cars are rolling out the doors available for sale, I certainly consider that operational and not shut down or closed!

Apparently, only a fully operational plant is open in your book. By that standard, most of the finished good manufacturing plants in this country that don't operate three shifts 24-7 are shut down or closed according to your definition.

And with the way Obama did the bailout, he had a lot more say over what was going on in regards to GM central management decisions than either Bush would have had under his plan, or Carter had with Chrysler and Iaccoca back in '79. If he really wanted to save the plant, he could have done so at that time, at least keeping it open through the end of his administration anyway.

But hey, it was only a little over 100 guys that continued working for 6 months after Obama was sworn in - they don't count, right! Let's call Ryan a liar!

I guess I'll just never understand that goofy, inconsistent, and selective liberal logic!

It's so ironic, blaming Obama for the closing of the GM plant coming out one side of your mouth, opposing the bailout of the auto makers coming out the other side.

Bringing up the Janesville plant and blaming it's closing on Mr. Obama is nothing but a VERY thinly veiled attempt to suck up to the undecided Wisconsin voter.

Keep tearing them apart Hoffa. They hate to hear facts when their statements are all based on liberal blogs or half truths.

@Renee -

Ryan voted in favor of a bailout package that consisted of a straight up interest bearing loan with a defined repayment schedule, as originally set up by G W Bush, and just like Carter did it for Chrysler under Iaccoca back in '79. The taxpayers would have realized a full recovery of their investment and actually made money off the interest charged.

Obama perverted that into a crony deal filled behind closed doors in a smoke filled back room giveaway to the UAW, Italians (Fiat), and Canadians, supervised by a self-appointed cars czar. The taxpayers have lost billions on this deal while handpicked select special interests walked away with the money.

That is what Ryan is against - not the bailout, but the way in which Obama structured it.

Please get your facts straight before passing judgment - you'll appear to be a much more informed person.

But if you still defend the way in which Obama structured these bailouts, then could you please tell us why it was necessary to do it Obama's way, as opposed to following the successful model that Carter realized with Chrysler, as Bush and Ryan wanted to do, whereby the taxpayers would have fully recovered their investment and actually made money as opposed to giving the billions of tax dollars away to the Obama handpicked select special interests?

Please - we're all dying to know your and Obama's explanation as to why this was necessary!

Socialism of the elite’s welfare programs
Another way instead of handing over the resources, for minimal returns, government rewrite rules to increase profits through Tariffs, taxes paid by the companies abroad but not local companies. This can some times be beneficial to the society. Companies that seek this protection are generally outdated, non competitive or made an error and wish to wait for time to be competitive.
Example; Ethanol subsidy to farmers for corn is not competitive with Brazils sugar ethanol. Corn is a food staple and raises food products cost. Sugar not so much. Brazil takes the lead.
USA has a variety of other vegetations that are not food and are more efficient for ethanol production. Aside from vegetations we have algae’s that digest CO2 for production of ethanol. Ability to compete is there and yet by holding a high tariff on Brazilian ethanol imports {.54 per gallon} and continued subsides to corn production is not beneficial to our abilities to compete. Promoting scenarios of dependency on governments when none is required. Multibillions to squelch our desires to compete on a level field with other nations on the free trade markets. Higher cost to food products and lost of employment in essence is being subsidized by the government!

Socialism of the elitists welfare programs.
Scenarios such as these and the following illuminates a third party interest is involved that benefits from this abnormality to our free trade markets and to its constituents‘.
Another example is the old poison pill scam. Consider back in 2003 republicans introduced , what many refer to as the “Poison Pill” of Health Care.
Government extended much needed Medicare drug benefits. A little provision was added to its extension. Provision PROHIBITS government from bargaining for prices on drugs! $50 Billion per year windfall to the pharmaceuticals. Imagine cost to premiums to cover that little bit added expenses. Where will they get it. Perhaps by reducing quality of Health Care. Premium increases, lowering the mortality rate and so on.
Ahhh the republican way…. Who can complain? Its what ya’ll voted for, wasn’t it.
Lets see 9 X 50 = $450 Billion.. Hmmm Kinda of a leak there…

Nice Freudian slip. While killing people with severe cuts in Medicaid and shredding the safety net, Ryan will be pushing for expensive, useless weapons system to fight the Soviet Union.

Hmmm, let's call it an Apple spellcheck Freudian, lol..... I don't care that much, they can try to go ahead and fix the economy if they can win, Im just nervous when the rhetoric starts to shift to Iran, I'll have to be out in the streets this time ;)

Obama has been consistent with the philosophies of some of Marriner Eccles and FDR. Obama realized the importance of deficit spending to stimulate the economic recovery in the midst of chaos. The “Stimulus” established a floor for the financial markets protecting them from any further decline.
Bush in the last 17 months of his tenure markets losses 58% from peak to trough. Exposing a rolling 17-month period that never existed before. Historically greater loss than in any 17-month rolling range during the Great Depression.
Bush in the final 12 months of his administration lost 4.43 Million jobs which once again a historical marker not seen since the Great Depression. Obama created 4.3 million jobs to reduce the spiraling losses of jobs. 750,000 per month job losses was what Obama was handed in Jan. 2009. Slow but surely recovering as the investment of the “Stimulus” in the infrastructure of markets and corporations strengthen, to increase demand for laborers.

@Keith, do you ever have any facts to go along with your kindergarten comments? What about Barry cutting $700 billion from Medicare?

$700 billion in limits payments to health care providers and insurers to try to reduce the rapid growth of future Medicare spending. Not cuts as the misleading mantra of your ilk try to shout as truth. Shout it loud enough & long enough & people believe it to be truth, the GOP mantra.

@Walker; I know where the cuts are coming from. Unlike you I actually read stories that come from publications other than the daily koossss and know what I am talking about before I throw on a post. So you think that these providers are going to keep providing care if they are getting paid pennies on the dollar? I'm guessing you are always on the side of nurses when they strike, right? Umm, your kind of at a crossroads then.

Not sure what the daily kos says, that was from CNN's website. Why are you so angry? Always belittling others? I do work in the healthcare industry & realize how funny all your scare tactics are. You seem to have a magic ball you look into that always shows doom & gloom.

@Walker; the left winger who tears apart everyone who doesn't agree with him thinks I am belittling him? Was it the fact that I pointed out that you have no facts behind any of your posts that offended you?

Ah, the hand points a finger not realizing 3 fingers are pointed back at him.
Accusing others of exactly what he is guilty of.
I suppose the moderates today do appear to look like "left wingers" next to todays teaparty extremists. Screaming for facts but providing none.

@Walker, "moderate" why does every left wing nut claim to be a moderate? Why are you all scared of your true colors? Why don't you list out what you believe in so everyone can decide for themselves? I am for smaller govt and that includes focusing on important social issues and not governing every aspect of our life. I am for the legalization of pot and would consider legalizing others. I don't do any drugs myself but I don't want to pay 40k per year to arrest pot smokers who aren't hurting anyone. I think we should move towards a flat tax with small increments and no one should ever pay more than 33% of their pay in taxes. We should figure out a system to reward good teachers and end tenure in higher education. Just a couple; lets see where you stand.

We agree on those points.

@Walker, you agree with me? I swear that half of liberals would vote for a republican if they just had to answer 10 questions and it would vote for who you agree with most. While a lot of repubs wouldn't agree with my drug views there are a lot that do and most would hold financial health of the country as the most important aspect they vote on?

Socialist program of the elitist
Another welfare overreaching its solution. Oil, Coal, and some Agriculture required assistance at one time, to increase their productivity to markets, with their products. Once established, their success ,welfare is no longer required. Today we have before us welfare abuse an wide and broad base by the elitist. One more before we end this. Observe 2010 top ten oil companies paid zero taxes. Received tax returns into the $Multimillions each. Demand further assistance of $ Multibillions for their welfare. Such is their strengths at present, that they can “SHUTDOWN” the USA should we choose to deny their welfare!
These are but the tip, of the reverse pyramid schemes, of the republican scenarios.

I hope they don't repeal ACA (what rude people call Obamacare). I just received a cool $35.17 refund from United Healthcare courtesy of ACA. One close relative gets to keep their college grad on their insurance policy (which they pay, not the government) for two more years. Another is off the high-premium insurance policy with existing condition rider and paying a normal insurance rate.

"Obamacare" is working very well for us, many thanks. By keeping college grads on the policy for another year or two, the insurance companies are actually benefiting. If they cannot prove that a certain percentage of premium payments are going toward funding health care service, they have to return the excess. And they have to provide care for people they previously turned away. If they're smart, the insurance companies will make this work. Otherwise I do believe public opinion will turn further against our current system. There's already a substantial portion of the public that is interested in a public option.

Mike, perhaps you want to study up on the ACA.

Stimulus plan to revitalize the middle class produced a beneficial return on investment. We have seen an impressive recovery in the equity markets from Bush’s stock markets lost of 14 years of gains. Markets had retraced the lows back to 1996 in less than 17 months. Greatest lost ,in market value, in our Nations history. Obama’s actions helped restore equity markets post a gain of 105% through April of 2011. During Obama’s first 27 months in office.
Making up most of the losses with gains to the DOW of 17.2%, S&P 500 25.3% and the NASDAQ 31.7%. Compare this to say Reagan first 3.3 years in office Reagan’s gains to ; DOW 6.86%, S&P 500 6.16%, NASDAQ 7.02%. Obama has surpassed most of his predecessors, including Bill Clinton and Ronald Reagan!
Stimulus also stopped the decline in corporate profits that started under George W. Bush. Stimulus helped produce an increase of 22% per year in the first two years.

To the delusional fools on here who love Obamacare (There's no reply button after their comments) I, and many others will be forced to buy health insurance we can't afford. If we don't then the IRS will enforce penalties against us. That makes sense since the Supreme Court has ruled it as a tax. The IRS can then use their usual unconstitutional extra judicial extortion collection measures. I can't afford health insurance along with many other Americans. Many of us have no interest in the over priced toxic chemical prescription drugs, and the greedy corporatist allopathic doctors peddling the drug companies dangerous crap! We partake of low cost naturopathic medicine free of side effects, and in tune with the bodies evolution gave us. Maybe our oh so great liberal leader should be a real liberal and give us Universal Health Care instead of launching wars against sovereign nations for his corporate banking cronies. And yes your liberal Lord is in fact a corporatist disguised as a socialist. His predecessor Bush was a corporatist as well. Begin to realize that both political parties are corporatist in nature, and that they control the election system, and get only their cronies into power. Real liberals should vote Green Party and real conservatives should vote Libertarian or Constitution Party. I still hope the corporatist Republicans will actually do one thing for the people, and repeal the Obamination of Obamacare!

@Mike -- just curious, is it enough for them to repeal Obamacare or would you want it replaced with something else?

Bren, trying to stuff a crap sandwich down my throat, and saying its good for me is rude!

@Bren, it's great that you got a $35 refund when this entitlement will end up bankrupting our country. I'm sure your grandchildren will be so glad that you passed that on to them when there standing in bread lines because the country went to hell.

Mike, most of us would rather not fork out for health insurance, the average per-family of 4 cost is about $1,500/month. There are folks who honestly can't afford the insurance and ACA provides care for that. There are folks who want insurance but can't get it because of pre-existing conditions or can't afford even higher rates with pre-existing riders (like my relative). And there are some folks who could afford it but prefer to take the risk that nothing will happen. When those folks have a serious illness or injury beyond their means to pay (why we buy insurance), who pays the bills? Our system is a trainwreck and we should have established a national healthcare plan long ago, but special interests as usual got in the way of the public good. So Mike, if you are income eligible you have no worries. If you haven't purchased insurance because you are too cheap to do so, welcome to the reality-based world of paying thousands/year for crap health insurance.

Gear, the middleman health insurance industry is the crap in your sandwich, not the ACA.

Chadwick, the refund was paid because the insurance company couldn't tie that money to direct service costs. That includes paying wages, processing and paying claims, and a % of admin costs to keep the system functioning efficiently. What I and millions of other citizens received was pure profit, greedily wrenched from the pockets of people just trying to keep their families healthy. No way is this entitlement, it is owed.

@Bren, so if something is expensive and you'd rather not pay for it the government should provide it for free? What could possibly go wrong!? Why not free houses, free health care and free ponies for every boy and girl? (Hint, start with the "free" houses to find the logical outcome of government distortions in the housing market leading to the inevitable collapse of 2007.)

Adam, not sure what you're alluding to here. You certainly aren't trying to blame the mortgage crisis on the Community Reinvestment Act, are you?

Would a thoughtful progressive like yourself blame George W Bush for a financial crises caused by 30 years of easy money federal mortgage madness? I blame the (mostly) democrat's affordable housing policies for distorting the housing market with taxpayer guaranteed money by making loans to unqualified buyers in the name of "fairness." It was a textbook example of government intervention creating an artificial "boom" in housing prices and inevitable "bust" in 2007.

Bren, I'm sure you're far too sophisticated to believe in a free lunch for health care? Do you really want a single payer system where people pay with pain and suffering (waiting lists and limited pharmaceutical / treatment options) rather than dollars and cents?

What a monument to rationality.

How do you explain that "Deficit Hawk" Ryan voted for every budged busting bill that floated past his widow's peak.

skinny, we haven't seen anything substantive from Romney/Rand. All I've heard is, "I'm the one running for president" from Romney when asked if the Ryan/Rand Path to Poverty plan will be "his" plan. Where's the work-up, then? Check out the hashtag #Romneyshambles to learn about his adventures in England. The guy can't get along with our allies, what's he going to do with less friendly nations?

On Obama's watch ACA was enacted, the economy and at least a million jobs were saved through the GM bailout (alone), Osama bin Laden is no longer a threat, I received a $35.17 refund from United Healthcare, etc., etc. This is change from the near-depression circumstances of the economic turndown, letting bin Laden live in luxury in plain sight in Pakistan, etc. We gave Bush 43 a second term to start two wars and oversee Wall Street's crash. I think Obama, and we, deserve a chance to keep working toward better things. Sorry to disagree with you.

Stimulus package was not enough for the American Recovery Act of 2009 providing direct relief and support for the middle class. Continuing with Bush tax cuts to the millionaires is not a productive solution. Obama has yet to experience the cooperation of the republicans in governing this nation. Obama has had to work with the most dysfunctional and vitriolic congress and political climate in modern history. Partisanship and salesmanship are rewarded over statesmanship. Recalcitrant congress produced a toxic atmosphere for Obama. Decreasing their commitment to their constituents,’ for the statesmanship the voters voted for.

It is good fun watching these liberals lose another election, sounds a lot like what these goofs and clowns were spewing when Walker kicked their over sized asses.

Marriner Eccles stoutly recognized that a strong economy is dependent on money being in the hands of the people who will spend it in order to create demand for products and services. {Bottom 99%}. Hoarding 40% of nations wealth by 1.2% of our populace creates an ominous burden on the 99%. Hoarding will not produce services and or consumers. Brining the engine of our society to a stall and or seizer.

More prosperous times is achieved, with a degree of income equality for the 99% and the 1%. History has demonstrated that the larger the income gaps the reduction of power from the engine’s of the middle class. Largest income gaps occurred in the late 1920’s and again in the late 2000’s just prior to the two worst debacles ever seen in this country. {The Great Depression and The Great Recession} Coincidence? Think Not!

Federal Government role requires its involvement to the welfare of its constituents‘. Security, Health, Education and so on. Liberal International Free Trade Markets competitors that we need to compete with, demands an educated healthy society. A reduction in organization signals to our competitors a chink in our armor. Observe in the last 80 years how less government contributed to deregulations which in turn was abused to the advantage of a few. Increasing the income equality gap further and more vulnerable to our competitors’ . Smaller government is the Myth that history and nature has proven ,as the incorrect direction to our ability to survive, within the complexities of societies. Less government and law is a desirable goal ,for the lawless criminals of all societies.

LOL I just LOVE how this idiot, Bernard Forand, spouts this crap and nobody, and I mean nobody, acknowledge his/her/its attempts are trying to sound intelligent.

@ oak creek
You have just validated Forrest Gump: "Stupid is as stupid does"

The issue is all about economics! Lets see how the parties measure up.
Pedro Santa-Clara
Nova School of Business and Economics; National Bureau of Economic Research
(NBER); Centre for Economic Policy Research (CEPR)
Rossen I. Valkanov
University of California, San Diego (UCSD) - Rady School of Management

Pedro Santa Clara and Rossen Valkanov Concurred that the democrats fared better than the republicans by a wide margin. Democrats had consistent above average returns. Most Republicans had lower than average returns and greater volatility.
Santa Clara and Valkanov attribute the difference in returns to the stock markets being systematically and positively surprised to discover that democratic polices in a 80 year time frame of quantifiable data, are the best economic stewards for the nation. Differences are substantial.

Democrats had a respectable average return of 9.6% as when compared to republicans 0.58% average returns. If an employee’s 401[K] plan was fully invested in stocks at a value of $100,000, at the beginning of the employee’s 40 years of labor, apply this to both parties for returns.
Republicans Nest egg would have accumulated $224,375.
Democrates Nest Egg would have accumulated $ 3,912,210.
Now at $5,000, initial nest egg investment.
Republicans Nest Egg would have accumulated $126,027.
Democrats Nest Egg would have accumulated $1,985,526.
‘The Presidential puzzle; Political Cycles and the stock market” Accessed December 14 2011 http://personal.anderson.ucla.edu/rossen.valkanov/Politics.pdf and the journal of finance, Vol.LVIII, no.5October 2003
In addition;http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/may/23/facebook-posts/viral-facebook-post-says-barack-obama-has-lowest-s/ Nobel Prize Awarded site
Which supports Debt To GDP figures. Last 4 years of Bush attributed 20.7% to debt to GDP. Obama of the 3 years has a Debt to GDP of 15.1%. A reduction to debt of 5.6% in spite of all the sabotaging efforts’ of the republicans. { Hostage/Ransom} scenarios.
Their present financial planning is similar to Herbert Hoover/ Bush…?

( http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2013/assets/hist.pdf )

YEAR ------ TOTAL SPENT ---% INCREASE
----------------(in millions)
2008 ..........2,982,544 .............9.30% (last year of Bush)
2009 ..........3,517,677 ...........17.94% (transition budget with TARP)
2010 ..........3,456,213 ............-1.75% (first Obama budget)
(still higher than 2008 by 15.88%)
2011 ..........3,603,061 .............4.25%
2012 ..........3,795,547 .............5.34% (estimate)
and the politifact followups:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2012/may/25/lots-heat-and-some-light-obamas-spending/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/the-facts-about-the-growth-of-spending-under-obama-part-2/2012/05/30/gJQA3V4d2U_blog.html

So how do you go from 2.982 TRILLION to 3.795 TRILLION (a 27% increase in four years) and still have "the slowest growth in spending of any President in the past 60 years"?!?!?!?!?!

Stormy
Cost increases in financing markets due to laissez-faire polices of the Bush administration. {DEREGULETIONS}
Hedge funds are speculative by definition, are held accredited [e.g. affluent] investors. They are exempt from many of the public disclosures and requirements of federal securities law. Virtually non-entity prior to 2001. Bush administration hedge funds exploded from $250 Billion enterprise to a $2.5 Trillion enterprise. Lax enforcement of SEC regulations allowed “naked short selling” which makes its profit off the Main Street investors. Buy low sell high standard investors philosophy to the markets. Hedge fund with their vast reserves of liquidity could manipulate the prices to markets with no chances of lost. Make a share drop for short sales profits and rise for harvesting profits. Using other people’s monies! Christopher Cox SEC chairman looked the other way. Small businesses suffered when their stocks dropped. Driving some into bankruptcy and disseminated the average retail investors.
Volatility markets contributed to the tumultuous finish to Bush administration. 2008 with reckless policies and omissions, created the perfect storm. Bush entered office with DOW at 10,587; left office with the Dow at 7,949 producing a negative market loss through out his tenure. Last 17 months stock markets experienced an historical loss of 58%! This was worst than any 17month rolling cycle of the Great Depression.

@Walker -

From your linked Politifact story:

"The plant was effectively shut down on Dec. 23, 2008, when GM ceased production of SUVs there and laid off 1,200 workers. (Several dozen workers stayed on another four months to finish an order of small- to medium-duty trucks for Isuzu Motors.)

So, the plant closed while Bush was still in office, about a month before Obama was inaugurated."

So, let Hoffa get this straight - you're believing the opinion of an article that claims that the plant was closed under Bush, despite the fact that "several dozen workers stayed on another four months to finish an order of small- to medium-duty trucks for Isuzu Motors."

Actually, it was over 100 workers, including my father. And if the plant was closed during the Bush administration, then how did my father and the other workers manage to get into it and assemble trucks? Did they all break in and work for free just out of a want to build trucks so that a Japanese company could profit off them?

Come on THINK - Politifact has shown its partisan bias and their OPINION is wholly unreliable.

The question is, if the plant shut down was out of Barack Hussein Obama's hand's, why did he make a promise he had no ability to keep?

Do you read this junk before you link it?

Just the facts ma'am.

The Perfect Storm
1] Feb. 2008 Fannie Mae reports $3.55 Billion lost for 4th quarter of 2007. 2] March Bear Sterns accepts buy out by J.P. Morgan Chase. This was a $30 Billion bail out transaction by the Fed.’s. [from Fed. Reserves]
3] Carlyle Group defaults on $16.6 Billion debt. 4] Government supports Fannie May and Freddie Mac with $200Billion. 5] April International Monetary Fund projects a $945 Billion loss from the financial crisis. G7 institutes financial regulations. 6] June Home repossessions more than doubles. Two Bear Sterns managers charged with fraud relating to the subprime mortgage market. 7] July price of oil hits all time high at $145 per barrel while gas goes to $4.00 8] Indy Mac collapses, Fannie May and Freddie Mac continue to spiral down. Bush ignores it. 9] Hank Paulson , Secretary of the US Treasury declares in March 2007 “ global economy is more than sound; it’s as strong as I’ve seen it in my business career” 10]September government seizes Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

@Walker -

Your so-called fact check is in desperate need of fact checking!

Just more proof that you can't trust the media to report strictly factual and unbiased news. You must always go to the source, research, and analyze for yourself if you want the real truth behind any story.

But lemmings like Walker prefer to let others do their thinking for them and dictate their public discourse. I'm guessing that Walker is big fan of Pravda!

When jimmy posts links they're to be taken as facts but anyone else post an opposing link, even from the same source, it's to be taken as untrust worthy. Hmm, K.

@Walker -

Jimmy also provides analysis - he thinks for himself as opposed to allowing others to think for him.

Right . . . .

With a little twist-n-shout.

& a side of belittling.

But yet he berates anyone for thinking people can't think for themselves.

@Walker -

Maybe if you demonstrated independent thought by performing and sharing an analysis of your own on these boards, people would take your comments more seriously.

You can start with defending how defining a manufacturing plant that continues to roll out fully assembled vehicles available for sale is somehow properly defined as being closed or shut down.

We're waiting!

@Walker
Thank you for validating my opinions of the condescending nature put out there by the person who refers to himself in a third party manner.

@Berhard -

You can stop all the disjointed cut and paste anti-conservative liberal brain dumps direct from the pages of the Daily Kos - it's messing up the flow of the discussion on the boards!

Bernie is a joke.

@Robert -

To what number are you referring? Are they even on topic to this post? And yes, numbers can be manipulated to support varying conclusions and outcomes, as they commonly are in accounting practices, statistics, etc.

Hoffa doesn't trust any conclusions coming from a third party - he prefers to go the primary source, review the facts for himself, perform his own analysis, and come to his own conclusions.

That's something that us grownups like to call - independent thought!

@morninmist -

You were peddling the same hate-filled crap about Walker during the recall. No one takes you seriously!

If only mist's comment made any sense, but it is just more babble.
Shameful, is Obama's biography, AKA the book of lies. He even had to make up composite girl friends. Pathetic...

and again:
( http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2013/assets/hist.pdf )

YEAR ------ TOTAL SPENT ---% INCREASE
----------------(in millions)
2008 ..........2,982,544 .............9.30% (last year of Bush)
2009 ..........3,517,677 ...........17.94% (transition budget with TARP)
2010 ..........3,456,213 ............-1.75% (first Obama budget)
(still higher than 2008 by 15.88%)
2011 ..........3,603,061 .............4.25%
2012 ..........3,795,547 .............5.34% (estimate)
and the politifact followups:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2012/may/25/lots-heat-and-some-light-obamas-spending/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/the-facts-about-the-growth-of-spending-under-obama-part-2/2012/05/30/gJQA3V4d2U_blog.html

So how do you go from 2.982 TRILLION to 3.795 TRILLION (a 27% increase in four years) and still have "the slowest growth in spending of any President in the past 60 years"?!?!?!?!?!

Don't confuse their illusions with facts Bernard. It only arouses them.

How can they even complain about the deficit or stimulus spending? Obama was handed an economic disaster and a record deficit. It. Makes. No. Sense.

Bren- Sorry but this just has to be said. Real leaders relish the hand they are dealt, accept the challenge and then try to fix it. Obama didn't do any of that.

And by the way, what about the hand Bush was dealt? He was handed a mess with the lack of Clinton to deal with Al Qaeda. Do remember the '98 bombing of the American embassy in Sudan? Or the attack on the USS Cole? Or what about the launching of several cruise missles at the Saddam Regime? Or what about the sorry state Clinton left the intelligence agencies that convinced the world that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and that Al Qaeda had been training in Iraq.

I'm sure that all of that mess, which less than 9 months into his presidency, led to the single most devastating attack on US soil, did not just happen in those short months. Yet Bush or his Administration never complained or blamed the previous administration for their failures. No, they dealt with the hand they were given. Swiftly and with authority, they handled the situation to the point that we as citizens were safer after the attack, then what was dealt to them.

You may not agree with what happened after that, but that showed true leadership. Sorry Bren, can't say the same about your guy Obama.

@Brian Dey...To equate the conditions that Bush walked into and that what Obama walked into is like comparing night and day. You discount the Obama and count Bush.

I am critical of Obama because he didn't pursue cleaning up the financial industry and listening to his Secretary of the Treasury, Timothy Geithner. I am critical of Bush because his lack of intellectual curiosity and focus on domestic issues even after being warned of the imminent danger by Richard Clarke. You're disingenuous in supporting all things Republican and discounting all things Democratic, regardless of the circumstances. One of the questions to ask is whether or not Clinton avoided getting us into a greater un-winable war/s. Given the circumstance, I don't think we had justification for going to war under Clinton. Whereas, Bush made the right decision in taking on the Taliban, but was clearly unjustified with the adventure in Iraq.

@Lyle -

During the financial crisis and bailout, Tim Geithner was advocating that the Fed lift leverage limits, thereby allowing the big banks to get even BIGGER, or in Geithner's own words "really f@cking big." And he was the mastermind behind combining depositor banks and the investment banks so that the investment banks could be bailed out with cheap loans at the fed discount window. Despite all that, they still ended up needing TARP at the end of the day.

It's no wonder that everyone with half a brain, and especially John Mack, told Tim Geithner, the man who can't even manage to pay his own taxes correctly, to go f@ck himself!

And that's the genius that you want and expect our commander in chief to listen to? WOW!!!

@JRH...I apologize for not being clear enough. Obama's biggest mistake was listening to Geithner. My criticism, if you've read my latest posts has been on Obama's failure to deal with the elephant in the room, the financial industry.

@Lyle -

I see - sorry for mis-reading that point. But then how can you support Obama in this election, as he continues to stand by Tim Geithner? Another four years of Obama/Geithner isn't going to fix anything by your own admission.

So why are you backing Obama as opposed to Jill Stein or someone else?

( http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2013/assets/hist.pdf )

YEAR ------ TOTAL SPENT ---% INCREASE
----------------(in millions)
2008 ..........2,982,544 .............9.30% (last year of Bush)
2009 ..........3,517,677 ...........17.94% (transition budget with TARP)
2010 ..........3,456,213 ............-1.75% (first Obama budget)
(still higher than 2008 by 15.88%)
2011 ..........3,603,061 .............4.25%
2012 ..........3,795,547 .............5.34% (estimate)
and the politifact followups:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2012/may/25/lots-heat-and-some-light-obamas-spending/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/the-facts-about-the-growth-of-spending-under-obama-part-2/2012/05/30/gJQA3V4d2U_blog.html

So how do you go from 2.982 TRILLION to 3.795 TRILLION (a 27% increase in four years) and still have "the slowest growth in spending of any President in the past 60 years"?!?!?!?!?!

Lyle- For a smart guy, you totally missed the message. It wasn't comparing the situations; it was how each reacted. Obama acted like the the kids in a Family Circle cartoon; "Not me, not me."

Real leaders don't find blame; they find solutions. Obama did the blame game and that is not a leader. Plain and simple. With the qualifications Obama had , he would have been hard pressed to be a branch manager of a McDonald's. It has shown throughout his tenure just how inept he was.

I won't argue the merits of the Iraq War, as almost every single world leader fell victim to our poor intelligence. You can hardly put that on Bush. But Bush never blamed Clinton for the housing market he created with lifting regulations that allowed people who would have never qualified for a mortgage; to get one because of the color of their skin. Nor did he blame Clinton for the decimation of the intelligence agencies under his watch.

Again, he simply led. Now you don't have to like how he led, but he had major majority support from the Democrats in the House and Senate. But your hypocrisy is that Obama's lack of leadership is due to Congress, however, true leadership would garner bipartisan support. It is not about what they were left with; it was all about leadership!

@Romney -

If Obama was just going to permit GM and Chrysler to do whatever they wanted with the government money anyway, then what purpose did the car czar or the crony UAW deals serve?

Do you honestly believe that Obama or his people would be honest about what went on during the auto bailout negotiations? If so, then how come they were all held behind closed doors, in back smoked filled rooms? Didn't Obama promise us that his administration would be openly transparent and that we'd be able to watch such processes happen in real time on C-SPAN 3?

Hoffa was watching, but he didn't see any of what Obama promised come to fruition - instead, he saw the exact opposite happen!

Please grown a brain and learn to analyze and think for yourself!

Like Hoffa does. Only overlook all the right wing talking points.

@Schmitzy -

Hoffa doesn't perpetuate right wing talking points. The right wing steals their talking points from Hoffa!

Get it right next time ;-)

@Hoffa
Get over yourself

@John Feia -

You must have missed the little smiley face on Hoffa's post - either that or you have absolutely no sense of humor at all!

I guess I don't have your sense of humor... thankfully.

Page 2 continued
Across Europe simmering seething bubbles began to appear. Spain, Greece, United Kingdom and the United States all seething, foaming. boiling. Vaporous odors familiar, to our senses begin to arise. Equality, Liberty, Happiness, Freedom once again distributing their aromatic fragrances.
Zuccotti Park N.Y. to Tahrir Square. Scented sweet smelling odorous perfumes adrift. Misting about all that witness the kettle’s evolutionary broth simmering.
Providing the fuel of tinder dried economics, by the lords of the caldrons. Excessively abusing their inequality of distribution of their economics. Uneven heat to the pot, displaying the disproportion of the foaming simmering bubbles, as the caldron absorbs the fire’s energies. Caldron dissimulation’s, of the inequality of its energy, as efficiently as it can. Small eruptions of bubbling boiling froth appear to be spattered about.
Currents of winds, change the atmosphere. Stirring the fire to vigorous energies. Aromatic ambrosial scented vapors fill the nostrils.
Keepers of the flame may have to be refined, for the efficient equality of distributing the fuel, so as not have it boil over and destroy the savory flavors of the broth.
Appetites to be satisfied, Hunger grows for the evolutionary broth. Fodder for the beast within us.

@Bernard, I didn't state anything that could even be infered as an absolute statement. Time to go back to wikipedia and see if you can come up with any other words to try and look educated. By the way your argument on health care costs going down because of the number of people covered is actually right. The problem is that you arguing on one part of a huge bill. There is no way this bill will ever save us money. What about the thousands and thousands of bureaucrats that will have to be hired? What about the number of IRS agents we have to hire? The CBO has stated over and over this will increase our deficit. Facts my friend are what makes us right and you wrong; not opinions: http://centristnetblog.com/daily/cbo-obamacare-at-least-109-billion-in-deficit-spending-over-10-years/

Yeah, and the CBO's never been wrong about anything!

Look at how well they scored Medicare Part D!

Please - the CBO assumes that most small businesses will provide insurance as opposed to paying the penalty and that individuals who choose the penalty tax will actually pay it. They can't even get Warren Buffet to pay all his back due and owing taxes and yet we're supposed to accept these assumptions as representing a truthful future reality?

Do we now live in the United Fantasy Land States of America?

Come on - let's get real!

I'm responding to a post that referenced the CBO for its point of contention;

"The CBO has stated over and over this will increase our deficit. Facts my friend are what makes us right and you wrong; not opinions:"

Apparently your opinions are more "factual" than a fly by night organization like the Congressional Budget Office...

"Do we now live in the United Fantasy Land States of America?"

You tell me when you get back from vacationing there.

@John Feia -

When did Hoffa allege any factual contentions? He merely stated that the CBO projections have often proven to be dead wrong, as was the case with Medicare Part D, as just one example of many.

The CBO must perform its analysis according to what they are given - and of course the Dems are going to tell them to assume the absolute rosiest of scenarios under the ACA, duh!!!

Come on - think for yourself for a change!

"The cost feasibility of the Affordable Care Act depends on governors responsibly deciding to implementing it."

And several governors have already expressed that they aren't going to cooperate in implementation because the S Court stated that they don't have to, thus any smart and reasonable person would have already determined that that CBO projections on the ACA represent a mere fantasy at this point.

You claim to think for yourself, but then double down on the clearly erroneous assessment of the CBO after providing contradictory evidence yourself!

Are you sure you're thinking for yourself?

I see that Jerry forgot to take his meds this morning - at least he's always good for a laugh!

I don't know about Mussolini or Hitler but Fred Koch made millions working in the USSR during the late 1920s/early 1930s. He didn't care for communism but liked the cash he made. Fred's, like his famous sons' favorite "ism," is not "patriotism" but "opportunism."

@Bernard -

Speaking of hurricanes, didn't Obama blast Bush for his slow response to Hurricane Katrina?

Romney's already visited the areas damaged by the recent hurricane. Obama/Biden couldn't manage to fit it into their busy campaign schedule though.

Isn't Obama still the President? Shouldn't the job of being President come before campaigning for re-election?

I guess that to Obama and people like you, it's acceptable for him to continue campaigning as opposed to visiting the damaged areas in a timely manner as a part of his job as the President.

Obama and his supporters make Hoffa SICK!!!

Hoffa loves you too MrsPeel ;-)

@MrsPeel

http://www.pep-web.org/document.php?id=paq.024.0560a

Hoffa, as the old saying goes, "If the shoe fits......".

And Luke, just what bit of humor has been missed?

Bernie, your video link just recycles the same rhetoric that Barack Hussein Obama has been running on Romney for the past few months:
"Mitt's a flip-flopper"-did you notice that each of the conflicting "Mitts" were several years apart? Like Ronald Reagan, myself and many other people, his political philosophy has evolved. His current responses are much more conservative over his younger self.

"Mitt has many donors, including many rich ones": It also said he's taking away Barack Hussein Obama's donations as well as his Republican primary opponents. Dude, that's politics. People want the person that help this country, and their cause, to succeed. Barack Hussein Obama has already proven he is not the man to create jobs, get spending under control and manage the deficit!

You want to look at flip-floppers, look at Barack Hussein Obama's promises from 2008 and see where we are today!

@ The Anti-Alinsky

Old adage is; Romney’s greatest adversary is Romney. Flexibility is not what he is advertising. By signing off his unconditional rights as a leader with neglect of his oath to the nation demonstrates what he is really advertising with this flip flopping. Whatever the tune of the Pied Piper he will dance for them. As to Obama’s financing.
Stimulus plan to revitalize the middle class produced a beneficial return on investment. We have seen an impressive recovery in the equity markets from Bush’s stock markets lost of 14 years of gains. Markets had retraced the lows back to 1996 in less than 17 months. Greatest lost ,in market value, in our Nations history. Obama’s actions helped restore equity markets post a gain of 105% through April of 2011. During Obama’s first 27 months in office.
Making up most of the losses with gains to the DOW of 17.2%, S&P 500 25.3% and the NASDAQ 31.7%. Compare this to say Reagan first 3.3 years in office Reagan’s gains to ; DOW 6.86%, S&P 500 6.16%, NASDAQ 7.02%. Obama has surpassed most of his predecessors, including Bill Clinton and Ronald Reagan!
Stimulus also stopped the decline in corporate profits that started under George W. Bush. Stimulus helped produce an increase of 22% per year in the first two years.
For some ANTI, we must be patient and be ready to repeate and repeate over and over again. Takes some longer to understand simple reality from the mythical realms they harbour.

How about some sources Bernie.

And nothing from moveon.org, HuffingPost or DailyKos. I mean a legitimate source!

@Pull my string Keith Best...If you look deeply into the model that Romney is proposing, we'll be four more years down the road and in the same mess that got us here in the first place. He isn't introducing something new, just recycled.

Why Lyle Ruble, repeating the same ol' Democrat talking points. Fancy that!! You been hanging around the Republicans best friends again, lil' boy Mikey Tate and Gramey Zee? Sure sounds like it.
Romney/ Ryan are not Bush/ Cheney....far from it. Times changed and we need a new direction and we will get it with Romney/ Ryan. Count on it.

Hoffa does not perpetuate right wing talking points - the right wing steals their talking points from Hoffa!

This is why a lot of folks were surprised when Ryan brought up Janesville. He opened the door to a lot of questions, should have left it alone.

Parker Pen is another company that was finally padlocked under Ryan's watch, after years of buyouts/decline.

Clearly their strategists know enough about their economic base not to worry about it.

@Bren & @morninmist -

Parker Pen's product was no longer in demand - it's that simple. Did you want the government to fund the operations at a loss just so those people could remain working producing a product that no one wanted? I guess you did.

As far as unemployment benefits go, the votes that Ryan made were not specific solely to the laid-off autoworkers at the Janesville plant, were they?

At the time, UI benefits were draining state funds at such an alarming rate that the fed had to make emergency loans to the state funds to keep them solvent. And the fed was already borrowing and spending more than it was taking in in revenues, so any additional expenditures, like the emergency loans to the UI funds had to be put onto the federal credit card - which will carry additional interest costs into the future and the principle will eventually have to be repaid by our children.

Didn't you complain about Walker rolling over some previously acquired debt, which he did to avoid even deeper budget cuts, and now your blasting Ryan for voting down a measure that would have directly caused a new public debt issue?

Your inconsistency in policy positions predicated on nothing more than partisan affiliation is ASTONISHING to say the least!

With this post, you've conclusively proven yourself to be little more than an extreme partisan HACK!!!

You've been exposed!!!

Right, Mr. Hoffa. People no longer buy pens.

Guess you've been exposed, apologizing for the candidates you like, blasting the ones you don't for comparable behavior. Walker claimed he balanced the budget, the inference being that it would be done with cutting wasteful things like food stamps, tax credits for those at/near poverty, and K-12 education. Then quietly restructures debt and adds another $20 million in interest payments. Ryan is a good little atheist-Rand soldier and looks out for his own "rational self interest."

For every attack on Barack Obama there's a closetful of antics from Rand-Ryan and Romney to examine.

@Bren -

One of Hoffa's college professors at UW-Whitewater was the general manager at the Parker Pen factory in Janesville. Even back in 1998 when Hoffa was in his class, he admitted that cheaper products from Bic and other competitors were quickly eroding the demand for the kind of over-built quality product that Parker was producing at the Janesville plant.

You can thank consumers like yourself for the closure of the plant, who prefer cheaper made products, just like your Camry is to a comparable product from a union shop, to a quality product like Parker Pen Janesville - not Paul Ryan.

And who has Hoffa ever apologized for? Did Ryan ever state that he could potentially save the Parker Pen or GM Janesville jobs? Did Ryan stand before those workers and give a lofty speech about how the factory could be there for a hundred more years if only the workers supported his candidacy? Did Ryan double down on that talk several months later stating that he would lead the government effort to retool those plants to make them competitive in the global economy?

Answer: NO - Ryan did not do any of those things. But Obama did concerning the GM plant.

HUGE difference Bren.

And this isn't about Walker and his policies - it's about you employing a double standard to suit your partisan bias.

You know as well as anyone that the reason Walker restructured the debt was to avoid deeper budget cuts because he had to clean up Doyle's mess in the current biennium.

And whenever Hoffa has asked you what you would have additionally cut from the budget to be financially able to pay down that debt instead of restructuring it, you always avoid the question or fail to directly answer it.

You've been exposed again - do you really want to triple down on your bunk?

And for the third time now, Ryan has denounced the atheist and adulterous aspects of Rand's philosophy. How many more times must this be repeated to you before it sinks in?

Well look at you calling people names. Here's one for you: Internet tough guy!

; )

Amen!

Page two continued;

It's been obvious for years now that Wall Street could not be trusted, and finally official Washington agrees. The markets need a tougher cop to make sure that money-center banks, investment banks, credit-rating agencies, hedge funds, mortgage brokers and the rest don't let their own greed and arrogance ruin it for the rest of us.
"Regulation needs to catch up with innovation," Paulson said, and he was backed up by the rest of President Bush's working group on financial markets, including Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke and Securities and Exchange Commissioner Chris Cox. Not a commie among them.
The housing bubble wasn't a flaw; it was a predictable outcome of a system that rewarded smart people small fortunes for conjuring up ways to persuade people to borrow more than they could ever hope to pay back. All the profits were taken off the table quickly, but the staggering costs are only now being paid by homeowners, shareholders, builders and the rest of society.
Paulson's proposals won't necessarily prevent a recurrence, but they are a humble recognition that the centerpiece of two decades of Republican economic policy have failed.
-- Rex Nutting, Washington bureau chief
Republicans have not strayed from their previous agendas other than to increase the probabilities of failure.

Why do you Libs insist on spreading that lie.
Paul Ryan DID NOT say Barack Hussein Obama closed the Janesville plant!
Paul Ryan DID NOT say the plant closed under Barack Hussein Obama's watch!
Paul Ryan DID NOT say the plant closing was because of Barack Hussein Obama!

Here is the text of that portion of Paul Ryan's speech:
"...Obama said: “I believe that if our government is there to support you … this plant will be here for another hundred years.” That’s what he said in 2008.

Well, as it turned out, that plant didn’t last another year. It is locked up and empty to this day. And that’s how it is in so many towns today, where the recovery that was promised is nowhere in sight... "

His point was the Barack Hussein Obama IS NOT the man to get that plant reopened, or at the very least, create jobs so people can get back to work.

“If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth. "
― Joseph Goebbels

@morninmist -

Let's check Ryan's speech fact by fact, shall we?

"When he talked about change, many people liked the sound of it (TRUE or else he wouldn't have won the election), especially in Janesville (TRUE as Obama carried Janesville in the 2008 election), where we were about to lose a major factory (TRUE). A lot of guys I went to high school with worked at that GM plant (TRUE). Right there at that plant, candidate Obama said: “I believe that if our government is there to support you … this plant will be here for another hundred years (TRUE)." That’s what he said in 2008 (TRUE). Well, as it turned out, that plant didn’t last another year (TRUE). It is locked up and empty to this day (TRUE)."

So, where's the lie exactly?

I await your response.

Put this in your pipe and smoke it Bernard, your side lies more than anyone group. Don't post one sided facts
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/fact-checking-the-opening-night-of-the-democratic-convention/2012/09/05/ec50ad84-f73d-11e1-8b93-c4f4ab1c8d13_blog.html

Hey Bernie, how'd you like the "we gonna take God(but with a little "g") outta da DNC platform cuz Obama don like it" fiasco? What a bunch of clowns. Anyone who would vote for a candidate from the Democrat Party has to be a complete idiot, a dyed-in-the-wool communist, or drinking the Obummer kool-aid. Debbie-What's-my-name-anyway Schultz is an idiot and a liar to boot. If Obama is re-elected, I give up all hope for the intelligence of most Americans, and for the restoration of our REPUBLIC.

Seriously? You cite MOVE_ON_dotheads_ ORG and Politi-we're-honest-1%-of-the-time, to back up your ridiculous arguments? I know which one of the three types of Obama worshipers you are. The brain dead kool-aid drinker. You pitiful thing.

Hoffa
Here is the dishonesty. enough said!

Disillusioned Obama Supporter In Romney Ad Is Actually GOP Staffer http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/09/rnc-staffer-plays-obama-supporter-in-gop-ad.php via @TPM More Lies Lies Lies #wiunion

@morninmist -

See Hoffa's post below debunking this crap story. You really need to learn how to think before you post!

Or please tell us all one thing that Inclan did for the Republicans prior to 2008, because the article only references things that she has done for the Republicans since 2010.

FYI - Obama was elected in 2008.

@morninmist -

"Inclan began her current RNC post in January 2012, and has worked in Republican politics since well before Obama’s 2008 election."

And yet, the article cannot mention one thing that Inclan did for the Republicans prior to 2010.

Contrast to the people used in Obama's ads claiming to be former Republicans, who's political donation histories show proof positive that they were always really Democrats.

FYI - a lot of people that supported Obama in 2008 have since switched sides - that's the kind of dissent that failure tends to produce.

Once again, another post that misty obviously didn't think about before deciding to post it here!

And notice how it comes from something called talking points memo - proof that misty doesn't know how to think for him/her self and instead prefers to perpetuate the party propaganda and talking points of the day!

Mr. Hoffa, I think these types of antics are why so many people get sick and tired of politics. And of course, with fewer followers comes less oversight and even more foolishness. It's frustrating.

From what I've been given to understand, "Talking Points Memo" is a phrase relating to a meme that Republicans receive daily memos/faxes/emails with the day's talking points, because they all say the same things at the same time.

Of course I'm following the conventions. Perhaps I'm becoming jaded, but it seems the discourse from both major parties is become more vapid and less intelligent. More frustration as, if there was a time in modern history to be on point, this is it. What happens this year could fundamentally change our country for a generation.

@Bren -

Hoffa concurs with your practical assessment of this issue.

FYI - The Democrats are just as guilty as the Republicans for using coordinated messaging, if not more so.

The comments on the Patch boards alone prove this point!