Packing Heat: Local Businesses Torn on Concealed Carry Law
As Wisconsin becomes the 49th state to allow the concealed carry of weapons, local police adjust and businesses make tough decisions.
It’s a tough choice business owners are facing — post a sign on the front door that says “No Weapons” and be liable if someone is injured, or wonder who's packing a pistol as they make a purchase.
Wisconsin’s new concealed carry law went into effect Tuesday and local business owners are weighing the pros and cons of allowing weapons in their stores.
The law allows armed citizens to hit the streets, parks and businesses, unless there’s a sign posted that bans weapons.
Whether the business is a kid-friendly establishment like Art Trooper, a bar and restaurant like Calderone Club, or a larger chain of coffee houses like Stone Creek Coffee, everyone is weighing their options carefully.
"I’m really torn," Calderone Club owner Carmelo Fazzari said. "Half of me says I have kids and family, the other half says if someone does come in here, wouldn’t you want someone here with a pistol on to come to your aid?"
Ann Deuser owns Art Trooper, a kid-friendly arts and crafts studio in Audubon Court. She said she doesn't really foresee people coming into her do-it-yourself art studio armed anyway, so it's not worth the legal liability.
“Being a kid-oriented area, I don’t want anything negative when people walk in,” Deuser said. But on the other hand, she also said that as a small business, there's already many potential liabilities to face. “If putting a sign up makes me more liable … then I’m not putting a sign up.”
Wisconsin is the 49th state to grant permits to residents that will allow them to conceal weapons, including handguns, electric weapons like Tasers, billy clubs, and knives (except switchblades). Felons and those under 21 years of age won’t be eligible for a license.
Where it’s OK to Bear
While most state buildings will allow weapons — excluding courtrooms, police stations, prisons, state-run mental facilities and laboratories — Fox Point and Bayside municipal buildings like both Village Halls and the North Shore Library will be weapons-free zones.
As with any new law, there are many interpretations and opinions that can lead to misinformation. Glendale attorney and Maple Dale-Indian Hill School Board President Mark Goldstein has posted a FAQ page to shed some light on the new law.
The state grants immunity to any business that allows weapons if someone is harmed. However, if that business has elected to prohibit concealed weapons, it could be liable for negligence if someone is harmed.
Say someone walks into a business that has posted the "No Weapons" sign and another person comes in armed and shoots that patron. One argument is, in this case, the business could be liable because the unarmed patron was obeying the business' policy — not carrying a weapon — and therefore, could not defend himself.
But Goldstein said it seems hard to prove that an injury could have been averted by access to a weapon.
"It is not reasonable to think that the posting of a sign obligates the business owner to frisk all comers or 'swing into action' to prevent a crime or confront a criminal in the act," he said.
Natalie Kamprath, store manager at the Stone Creek Coffee on the edge of Fox Point, said she's not concerned.
"I'm not really worried about it. I guess I've never felt uncomfortable in here," she said.
So with the new law now opening the door for gun owners, business owners are forced to decide if they want to hold that door open, or take on another potential liability.
Rob
8:56 pm on Thursday, November 3, 2011
If you have any questions regarding CWP training or or law contact www.e2c.us or 1-866-371-6111 and the Instructors at Equip 2 Conceal will be happy to help you.
Sarah Worthman
10:23 pm on Thursday, November 3, 2011
Thanks for sharing, Rob.
Joseph
10:03 am on Friday, November 4, 2011
Wisconsin Carry, Inc will be offering free classes to its member in the near future.
http://www.wisconsincarry.org/default.html
Dave Koven
10:32 am on Friday, November 4, 2011
The irony is that if someone wanted to harm someone else with a gun, it is conceivable that they could fire their weapon from a legal carry area into an illegal carry area. So, in effect, the posting of signs seems to be superfluous to a good degree. There is so much rage and disrespecting going on in today's society that legal carrying might be too much temptation for some to deal with. Legal carry has also made a police officer's job incredibly more dangerous. Their stress levels will have to be factored into this decision as well. The unintended consequences resulting from this law have yet to be determined. We've lived without being able to carry a gun in public this long without the wholesale slaughter of citizens, why do we need to change it now? British police don't carry guns unless a SWAT team situation arises. Their legal system is very harsh on crimes committed with guns. Proponents of legal carry say we should be armed so that the govt.cannot subjugate us. If that were government's intent, they are way better armed than even the most ardent NRA supporter. Dave Koven
Joseph
10:48 am on Friday, November 4, 2011
Dave, gun crime in the UK has skyrocketed.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223193/Culture-violence-Gun-crime-goes-89-decade.html
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/10/27/gun-crime-up-600-in-parts-of-uk-115875-21776346/
Since the police have lost a lot of its officers, they started carrying again, but since they haven't practiced growing up, because firearms are pretty much banned, they are terrible shots.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_use_of_firearms_in_the_United_Kingdom
http://news.aol.co.uk/main-news/story/cab-passenger-shot-dead-by-police/1896809/
http://www.frumforum.com/no-criticism-please-were-british
Dave Koven
11:05 am on Friday, November 4, 2011
Joseph...It's a fair point you make about gun crime rising in the UK. I don't see where the arming of their police is causing the violent/gun caused crime to go down. A mandatory 20-25 year prison sentence for ANY crime committed with a gun would do more. Most of the worst gangs are protecting their drug territories. Legalizing drugs would immediately remove the profit motive. They could be taxed like tobacco products to help pay for schools, perhaps. The drugs could be made to decent pharmaceutical standards. Yes, some addicts would overdose, but they're doing that now. The stupid will always be with us, and it sounds cold to say it, but if they die, it is Darwin's Law in action. We don't want the stupid to decide what everyone's quality of life is going to be.
Joseph
11:33 am on Friday, November 4, 2011
Oh, I never said armed police makes crime drop. My point was, they were losing a lot of good officers because they could not defend themselves from the criminals who aren't abiding by the law (hence why they are criminals). Now, crime does drop when honest citizens are allowed to carry. In Kennessaw, GA in 1989, a law passed that required all homes to have a firearm in them. In 1990, burglary dropped 89%!
You can check out all this information in http://www.gunfacts.info/
Dave Koven
3:26 pm on Friday, November 4, 2011
The other eleven percent of the burglars that stayed active probably walked off with a lot of new guns which they sold to the other 89% who were too chicken to do their own robbing. Often those stolen guns get passed from hand to hand, and there is a multiplier effect that may or may not show up in the statistics.
Joseph
4:06 pm on Friday, November 4, 2011
If you are going to say those things, then find the information rather than making it up.
Dave Koven
4:19 pm on Friday, November 4, 2011
Just because there isn't a statistic on it doesn't mean it's not true. Hand guns are routinely stolen by burglars. Remember what Mark Twain said: "There's lies, damned lies, and statistics".
Joseph
4:31 pm on Friday, November 4, 2011
If a firearm is stolen, it is widely publicized.
Kurt
9:22 am on Wednesday, November 9, 2011
Dave, People that follow the laws are not the people you need to worry about. If you are ever in a position to be a victim of violent crime, I hope someone can come to your rescue.
Dave Koven
9:29 am on Wednesday, November 9, 2011
Too many" loose cannons" out there as it is. Arming them is scary.
Joseph
10:39 am on Wednesday, November 9, 2011
Such as? If someone was a loose cannon, the law before wouldn't stop them murdering people and it won't stop them now. Did you know burglary, robbery, rape, murder, and the like are all illegal and yet that doesn't stop the criminal?
Kurt
9:36 am on Wednesday, November 9, 2011
People that follow the laws were not shooting each other in the streets before....why would that change now??
Dave Koven
10:58 am on Wednesday, November 9, 2011
The mentally ill are the "wild card" in an armed society. Having a gun gives you a sense of security that might not be as real as you think. Fear, and the adrenaline rush it produces, causes erratic behavior. Your judgement and your aim might not be all you would wish it to be. Walker, ironically, announced that his security expenses have gotten to be double what Doyle's were. (Journal/Sentinel 11/09/11) People are angry, and now they're armed. Arming everyone is going to be a costly mistake. I would not want to be a police officer in today's environment. I would like to be a lawyer, though. The lawsuits resulting from all the new, but unplanned situations will be a cash boon for them.
Joseph
11:53 am on Wednesday, November 9, 2011
Sorry, but the law prohibits the mentally ill from owning firearms. Nice try through.
The couple of Tea Parties I have attended, multiple people have been armed and guess what, no one was shot! I know, it is shocking to see law abiding citizens acting in a lawful manner.
Kurt
11:33 am on Wednesday, November 9, 2011
So all around us in the other 48 states that already have concealed carry there is anarchy...and the news just hasn't gotten to us yet?? If we were the first state to enact such a law I might understand the sentiment but none of what you say has happened in other states. Are Wisconsinites just that stupid that we will be the first state to make your fears come true Dave?
Dave Koven
3:33 pm on Wednesday, November 9, 2011
SOMEBODY is doing the homicides with a gun. I can't believe they are all "normal". Interestingly, the law also prohibits felons from owning guns, but that doesn't stop them. Evidently, you and your fellow posters are knowledgeable about the safe way to handle fire arms. I have no problem with people like you guys. There are already enough illegal guns floating around that we don't need to have even more. There are more guns being sold, therefore, logically, there will be more guns found by the inevitable burglars who do a home breakin. Now a nut case or a career criminal will be able to have even easier access to a weapon, and he'll be able to buy one even cheaper because there are so many more out there on the black market.
Joseph
3:50 pm on Thursday, November 10, 2011
When Kennessaw, GA passed a law requiring everyone to have a firearm in their home, burglary dropped 89% the following year. Criminals fear armed citizens more than armed police: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_YTM_eAWnQ