Yeah, its real classy to burn the signs of your opponent

Let's see... harassment and death threats (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BgD_HoycD1M#!)... assault and destruction of property (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/12/17/1046497/-Recall-Trail-Our-Lives-Were-Threatened-My-Camera-Destroyed-UPDATE-2-Chip-Found-but-Broken)...

Yep, Zelinksi's definitely making it all up, the lying bastard.

Unfortunately there are those in this state who don't seem to be able to take a step back and take a deep breath when they really need to.

Geoff, Just like everything, you are sooooooooooo wrong. Your examples hardly show "plenty of violence".
So yes, Zelinksi's definitely making it all up, the lying bastard.

The left starts this crap and then expects everyone to step back and take it. Well bite me, I don't play that game.

Yes, because everyone who exercises their constitutional rights should expect to be assaulted and should be made to fear for their lives.

You heard it here first folks!

Who is everyone? What a stupid statement.

So you approve of sign burning? Arson? Isn't a yard sign a constitutional right? Kinda like Freedom of Speech?

When I comment that "Unfortunately there are those in this state who don't seem to be able to take a step back and take a deep breath when they really need to" clearly I am advocating arson.

Greg, you don't seem to actually care about what I write, only about what you want to think I write. Take a step back, take a deep breath, and rejoin the grown-ups at your earliest convenience.

As a grown-ups, I noticed that your original post justified the sign burning with 2 examples of "harassment and death threats". Did you not? Then you backed the lies of Zelinski.
So these things made more of a statement than "Unfortunately there are those in this state who don't seem to be able to take a step back and take a deep breath when they really need to". Who are you referring to?
Don't blame me for your lack of ability to get across a point. I think you are even confused about what you are trying to say.
Pick a side of the fence and stick to it, then maybe I can "rejoin the grown-ups"...PUKE.

You explicitly claimed that Zelinski lied when he said that Walker supporters had plenty of violence to go around them. I cited specific examples refuting your allegation. Nowhere did I condone arson.

If you can't tell the difference between calling out your allegations of lying and condoning arson, you need to take a step back, take a deep breath, and rejoin the grown-ups at your earliest convenience.

P.S. When I say "unfortunately there are those in this state who don't seem to be able to take a step back and take a deep breath when they really need to", I am referring (obviously) to anyone who allows themselves to get so worked up about people disagreeing with them that they lose the ability to behave like civilized people.

Mr. Tolly, I am uasually on your side, Democrat leaning, but I think you are way off base here. Graeme Zelinski is poison to the Democratic Party of Wisconsin and will need to go if the recalls fail.
Greg, I see what you are saying, but you should not use names like bastard. It weakens your points.

"P.S. When I say "unfortunately there are those in this state who don't seem to be able to take a step back and take a deep breath when they really need to", I am referring (obviously) to anyone who allows themselves to get so worked up about people disagreeing with them that they lose the ability to behave like civilized people."

So you mean Zelinski.

@Hershal Webster: I won't pretend that I'm any great fan of Zelinski - the DPW can hire whoever it likes for all I care - but it was the veracity of Zelinski's statement that was being questioned, a challenge that could not stand up to scrutiny.

"You see plenty of violence by Scott Walker supporters,"

Geoff, Please show me the PLENTY. It's a challenge.

Hershal, I agree with your points. As to the last point, I got emotional. I actually know better.

You claimed that "plenty of violence" as a description was an outright lie. How few examples makes that description an outright lie?

Plenty - a great number, amount, or quantity.
And in his quote he says "You see", present tense, meaning now. So 2 lame examples, 1 the guy thought the sign was about his ex-girlfriend, that are 6 months old will not cut it. One is not plenty. Bring 'em on.

So you need to play semantics and refuse to pin yourself down so you can move the goalposts afterwards. Gotcha.

OK, any amount should be easy for you since there are plenty. So let's start with 25 current acts of violence by Scott Walker supporters. Move the posts or lower the hoop, whatever it takes the game's on.

WoW, I really moved the goalposts pretty far in since "plenty" of Scott Walker supporters would probably be over 1%, so 12,500 recent violent acts should not be a problem. But I don't want to the guy that goes back on his word, so 25 should do for now.
And Geoff don't concern yourself with the semantics of these two posts, as recent and current are pretty much the same thing.

So now you're hedging and still need to pretend that Zelinski wasn't referring to the petitioning phase in order to support your slander against him.

I am pretending or hedging nothing. The story of sign burning is current and Zelinski's comment was about current actions. Since you can not provide even the limited number of examples, that you had asked me to quantify, you are in the wrong. But if I can help you to clear the good name of your dear friend Graeme Zelinski, you may provide 25 examples of violence by Scott Walker supporter durring the petitioning phase.

Does violence include destruction of property in your estimation?

Violence is an extreme form of aggression, such as assault, rape or murder.

I do not want to influence your response with any hedging, but let's see what you got.

Chirp...Chirp...Chirp...

Apologies Greg, I have been detained for some time.

So if someone describes 24 cases of assault, rape or murder as "you see plenty of violence," that qualifies you to call them a "lying bastard" and "the scum wouldn't know the truth if it lit him on fire."

Gotcha.

I guess i'll go with that.
But just so you know, zero is much less than 24. And this is far from Zelinski's first lie.

So if someone describes 23 cases of assault, rape or murder as "you see plenty of violence," that qualifies you to call them a "lying bastard" and "the scum wouldn't know the truth if it lit him on fire."

Got it.

Where are you going with this?

You were the one to call someone a "lying bastard". It's clear that your standard for calling someone that is ridiculously low, and your original comment thus meaningless.

So because you have nothing to dispute my claim, that makes me wrong? Typical.
Here's another one by your lying bastard.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2012/may/18/graeme-zielinski/wisconsin-democratic-party-spokesman-zielinski-say/

"So because you have nothing to dispute my claim, that makes me wrong?"

So far - after much prodding - I have established that you consider anyone who describes 23 cases of assault, rape or murder as "you see plenty of violence," to be a "lying bastard" and "the scum wouldn't know the truth if it lit him on fire."

Your position is clearly that if you don't like what someone says, you'll hold them to an arbitrary and unreasonable standard just so you can feel justified in calling them a liar.

"Here's another one by your lying bastard.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2012/may/18/graeme-zielinski/wisconsin-democratic-party-spokesman-zielinski-say/"; - then call him a liar for *that*, which you have provided perfectly reasonable backup for (as I said before, I'm no great fan of the guy), but not for failing to meet some arbitrary and unreasonable standard.

All, pls remember that Geoff "Trollycar" is a full fledged Dem troll and as UnitedWi Coordinator (about as radical, drumbeating far left org as there is in the state, and that's hard to accomplish !), is assigned to troll pages on Patch for Barrett. So Jeff, how's that working out for you? Sure looks like your hopes for a Barrett appointed govt. job are disappearing along with any chance of a lefty victory. Daily Kos has Walker up 9!!!

All, pls remember that "Bewildered" has no arguments to make so attempts to ad hom his/her way around these boards and call people names. Bewildered is incapable of comprehending that someone might do something without getting paid for it. Bewildered is unafraid of making things up (no Daily Kos poll has ever had Walker up 9; I am not and never have been a member of the Democratic Party; Bewildered has never bothered describing any "leftist" things that United Wisconsin advocates).

And Bewildered is the one hiding behind anonymity.

Oh pls Tolleycar, not a Democrat? give up the ghost. All one has to do is look at your blogs and quotes on Progressive Wi, founded by Russ Fiengold, to see your true colors. By the way, love the pic of you carring the box of recall petitions in Madison. did you have to put down your drum to pose?

At least fess up your own actions. Dem troll here, folks, representing UnitedWi, primary org leading recall movement. Oh yea, how's that going? And yes, Kos has Walker up 9. Maybe you should walk down the hall and check with them.

Oh yea, love your support of Zielinski. Happen to read the latest Politicalcheck on him that rates him "Pants on Fire"? Great role model.

Again, you show that you have no inclination to learn anything at all about other people that you can't fit into your black & white thinking: being set against Walker does not make one a Democrat, period. Just ask the Republicans who signed the recall petition.

Carrying a box of recall petitions into the GAB was a great honor. Yet somehow it didn't come with a Democratic Party membership card.

If Daily Kos has Walker up 9 as you claim, you will have no problem putting up a link or shutting up.

Oh, and clearly you didn't read what I wrote in response to Greg, who at least had the wherewithall to provide a link. My issue in this thread has been to do with Greg calling Zelinski a "lying bastard" because an arbitrary, unreasonable standard Greg is trying to hold him to with respect to Zelinski's quote in the article.

I'm out today, so be sure to continue flinging poo from behind your cloak of anonymity while I'm gone.

"Greg calling Zelinski a "lying bastard" because an arbitrary, unreasonable standard Greg is trying to hold him to with respect to Zelinski's quote in the article."

Geoff, you asked me to set the bar, I did. You complained it was too high, I lowered it. But in the end you are only able to blame me for your lack of ability to provide examples. You use the same tactic of Clinton, "it depends on the definition of IS" (said in his stupid drawl) or Edwards "What is the definition of the word THE?". This type of stupid game makes me feel a little violent.
Since I do not see violence by Scott Walker supporters, I stand by my statement until you can provide evidence to the contrary, at whatever level you feel will back your case without a doubt.

Gee, Trolleycar, you make friends every where you go, dontcha?

Roll in the mud with the rest of the pigs.

Deb justice---- yeah like saving the taxpayers over a billion dollars. And all it took was for some whiners to contribute what still amounts to less than the private sector does, to their own benefits. Check it for yourself, if you dare to know the truth.........www.reforms.wi.gov

A "billion dollars" - right. A huge fraction of those are "according to media reports [which we can only occasionally cite]" rather than, you know, actual reports from local government.

In Sheboygan Walker's claims appear inflated by a factor of 3 (http://www.sheboyganpress.com/article/20120424/SHE0101/204240377/Walker-budget-reforms-County-numbers-appear-inflated?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE).

Walker's YouTube channel features the following video that claims Kaukauna School District was looking at a $1,500,000 surplus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQQFWS6-8xE However, when one actually looks at its 2011-12 budget, the projected surplus is actually $33,901 (http://www.kaukauna.k12.wi.us/District%20Documents/2011-2012%20OPERATING%20BUDGET%20PRESENTATION.pdf) which is achieved after closing a school, putting off infrastructure improvements, making first graders walk from up to 2 miles away to get to school, laying off over 20 teachers. So that's only inflating the actual figure by a factor of 44.

As for www.reforms.wi.gov , why are my tax dollars paying for partisan political puffery that can't get its own numbers right?

Righto, if you can't win fairly, see if you can win by dehumanizing your opponent,

I hope you are holding your breath. There is a better chance that they catch and convict the arsonists, whose actions you condone.

Won't happen, Scott's clean.

It's just wishful thinking to say that "Scott's clean" given that he is currently under criminal investigation. Which isn't to say he is guilty; only that if you *know* he's clean then you know something that investigators clearly don't. This does not seem especially likely.

Geoff, it is just wishful thinking for you to think he's even remotely guilty. All that is being done is a witch hunt.

I did not say he was guilty; only you *cannot* claim that he is innocent with 100% certainty if he is under criminal investigation unless you have information that is mysteriously not available to investigators.

If you have such information that would unequivocably exonerate him, you have a moral duty to contact the Milwaukee County DA's office and give it to them.

Very true.

That would be hilarious!!

Some of my fellow Walker recallers found the remedy for having their sign stolen was to put down sufficient amounts of manure around it.

Geoff, that is hilarious! You libs certainly have plenty of manure to spread around !

You could have done without the personal insult.

Hey Jeff, forgot your sense of humor today? No personal insult intended nor do I really see why your hackles are up (tho I do think my remark was a little funny) Lighten up. I know it looks like its over for the recall and bbrrett , but the sun will still be shinning June 6. Hang in there.

Bewildered - *Warning* Do not enter into a war of words with Geo., he is a tough cookie and he will soon play the slander card.

That is the most asinine thing I've heard in a long time.

Huh? You aren't making any sense once again.

You aren't making any point. How can anyone follow what you are trying to say? Not to mention, do you have any proof that someone supporting Walker has set their sign on fire? Who would spend the money on a sign to only light it on fire?

Wow, great rebuttal. Stay classy Skip.

The "nature of the republican party" is to sit back and watch the democrats demonstrate, rant and bang their drums, then we go to the poles and kick your butt.
Not disturbing at all to me, Skippy.

You sir know nothing more than anyone else, so don't tell us what to do.
If you don't like reading it, you can always go away.
Are these the same bored kids that slashed the Republican party van tires? Who's kid was that? Gwen Moore's? I don't remember, but it was a democrat politician.

Michael Pratt, son of former Acting Mayor Marvin Pratt.

Those who pleaded no contest were Sowande A. Omokunde, the son of Democratic U.S. Rep. Gwen Moore, D-Milwaukee; Michael Pratt, the son of former acting Milwaukee Mayor Marvin Pratt; and Lewis Caldwell and Lavelle Mohammad, both from Milwaukee.

They originally were charged with felony property damage but accepted plea deals on the lesser charge.

See, I'm OK.

Michael Pratt, 33, Sowande Omokunde, 26, Lewis G. Caldwell, 29, and Lavelle Mohammad, 36
As you can see by the listed ages, the tire slashers were hardly bored kids. So Mr. Butt, I may want to take your stupid bet.
We should all learn from history.

Actually I live on the moon, but I vote in locally.
High school teenagers have much more maturity than what has been shown by the recallers and the Democratic Party of Wisconsin. What proof do you have?
Slashing tires would not have been expected to have been done by 30 year olds any more than it would be expected that they would have been the sons of Gwen Moore and Marvin Pratt. But I USE MY HEAD and LEARN FROM HISTORY and I will not fall for your hooligan story until proof is provided.

I think you meant to say "I conclude that we're all idiots"

But please explain to us idiots why you waste your time.